Season 22 Round 52 / 60
Game Time 2023 Jan 29, 18:26 UTC(+00:00)
Changes for Season 21
Michael
2022-12-02 12:08
Fathima wrote :
It is unfair if someone bids a high amount on a useless player, even if no coins were offered. But how do you draw the line here between cheating and a (noob) mistake? We have seen what Mr. Ske did when he left, and Tegimus did well to handle it properly, but such cases can always happen. It is not easy to define what's an acceptable value for a player and what's not, player value is an indication but there can be players who are valued much higher or much lower than that by some managers, depends solely on how each manager thinks how useful a player can be in his team.

For example, I have bought players with 1 star learning to keep my squad size high enough to have backup to play friendlies. For some it might look odd, but I knew what I was doing was for the better of my team.

None of the examples you are suggesting use coercion with real money to bring them about. Coins for bids does. It is pay to win.
texg8r
2022-12-02 14:20
Michael wrote :
Fathima wrote :
It is unfair if someone bids a high amount on a useless player, even if no coins were offered. But how do you draw the line here between cheating and a (noob) mistake? We have seen what Mr. Ske did when he left, and Tegimus did well to handle it properly, but such cases can always happen. It is not easy to define what's an acceptable value for a player and what's not, player value is an indication but there can be players who are valued much higher or much lower than that by some managers, depends solely on how each manager thinks how useful a player can be in his team.

For example, I have bought players with 1 star learning to keep my squad size high enough to have backup to play friendlies. For some it might look odd, but I knew what I was doing was for the better of my team.

None of the examples you are suggesting use coercion with real money to bring them about. Coins for bids does. It is pay to win.


But, again, how does that even happen. If the player is good enough someone else will outbid the manager that is paying with coins. I don't see how adding the coins changes the market dynamics of the transfer market as is. If someone wants to pay the market price for a transfer player and then add on coins....I guess they can do that, but not sure what the point would be. The selling owner does not get to choose who they sell to, it's an open market. Not sure your concern is valid.
Fathima
2022-12-02 14:54
I think the debate here is whether you should be allowed to offer coins for someone to buy a player that you want to discard.

Let us keep coins aside, is it allowed to ask your friend (assuming he has lots of money) to buy your player? The reason can be anything - may be you are in negative balance and needs help. And when I asked Tegimus he said it depends on how much you sell him for, a reasonable amount is acceptable, and anything higher you are at risk of sanctions against your account.

Now consider the fact that you are anyways able to release a player you don't want for 30% of his value, what is this acceptable amount? A 50% is 20% more for the seller. If I have to buy the same kind of player from teamless market, I spend 80% of value, so anything below 80% is beneficial for the buyer too. So a 50%-60% deal is good for both parties, and for me looks an acceptable amount.

Now let us come to the point of coins. If I want to do the same kind of deal with my friend, but in return I decide to help the buyer too with some coins. Of course if I am able to do the same without coins, why would I be stopped when I offer coins? Also I expect Tegimus to clearly specify how much this acceptable limit is, so that everyone is on the same page.
Don-x
2022-12-02 15:43
Funny that you are allowed to arrange transfers between friends.
Michael
2022-12-02 15:55
Fathima wrote :
I think the debate here is whether you should be allowed to offer coins for someone to buy a player that you want to discard.

Let us keep coins aside, is it allowed to ask your friend (assuming he has lots of money) to buy your player? The reason can be anything - may be you are in negative balance and needs help. And when I asked Tegimus he said it depends on how much you sell him for, a reasonable amount is acceptable, and anything higher you are at risk of sanctions against your account.

Now consider the fact that you are anyways able to release a player you don't want for 30% of his value, what is this acceptable amount? A 50% is 20% more for the seller. If I have to buy the same kind of player from teamless market, I spend 80% of value, so anything below 80% is beneficial for the buyer too. So a 50%-60% deal is good for both parties, and for me looks an acceptable amount.

Now let us come to the point of coins. If I want to do the same kind of deal with my friend, but in return I decide to help the buyer too with some coins. Of course if I am able to do the same without coins, why would I be stopped when I offer coins? Also I expect Tegimus to clearly specify how much this acceptable limit is, so that everyone is on the same page.

I think you have a blind spot on this fathima.

If I can get some kid to take my coins to buy my players i just buy the cheap guys on the transfer market like the current retiree who's on there for 5m and i get the kid to buy him off me for 10m. Rinse and repeat and i generate game money from real money.
Tegimus
2022-12-02 16:09 Edited by Tegimus at 2022-12-02 16:11
Fathima wrote :Now consider the fact that you are anyways able to release a player you don't want for 30% of his value, what is this acceptable amount? A 50% is 20% more for the seller. If I have to buy the same kind of player from teamless market, I spend 80% of value, so anything below 80% is beneficial for the buyer too. So a 50%-60% deal is good for both parties, and for me looks an acceptable amount.

Fathima, have you forgotten that you yourself have reported transfers for 50% as cheating before since the players were not worth that value?

Fathima wrote : Also I expect Tegimus to clearly specify how much this acceptable limit is, so that everyone is on the same page.

There is no such acceptable amount. If the transfer was pre-arranged and someone would not have paid that amount unless you have persuaded him to do so is a clear case of unfair transfer and will be acted upon. Doesn't matter if you have offered coins to do so or just arranged it based on friendship. You have just mistaken what I told you before, I just said that asking someone if he wants your player is legal, I didn't mean you can persuade him to buy that player by any means.

For cases where a player is worth that transfer amount, and someone else would have also bid that amount willingly, then that's an acceptable price for that player. But somebody offering coins is a clear indication that the player is not worth that amount, otherwise why would you even bother offering coins in the first place? So by offering coins for such a deal, you are just putting more emphasis on yourself doing something unfair. I would recommend not to offer anyone anything in return for a transfer deal, that will always come under the radar and you are always at the risk of sanctions.
punkska
2022-12-03 00:48
"* Increased Limits for saved tactics - you can have upto 5 lineup and tatcis saved for your team for free, this limit will be increased to 20 for F4Football Plus members"

^^ This new rule - it seems it actually only lets you have 4 different saved lineups/tactics, maybe the default one is counted as one of the 5, but wondering if that's the intention? To me the rule reads as if you should be allowed 5 saved lineups.
Tegimus
2022-12-03 04:32 Edited by Tegimus at 2022-12-03 08:28
punkska wrote :
"* Increased Limits for saved tactics - you can have upto 5 lineup and tatcis saved for your team for free, this limit will be increased to 20 for F4Football Plus members"

^^ This new rule - it seems it actually only lets you have 4 different saved lineups/tactics, maybe the default one is counted as one of the 5, but wondering if that's the intention? To me the rule reads as if you should be allowed 5 saved lineups.

Thank you for pointing this out. It was indeed supposed to be 5, if it is only allowing you to save 4 (other than the default one) then it is a bug and we will fix it at the earliest.

EDIT: This should be fixed now :)
Fathima
2022-12-05 04:21 Edited by Fathima at 2022-12-05 04:22
What I realized after going through experience gain reports from a lot of matches, is that my approach of training only 3 youths for xp was not the most efficient one. If you train 3 youths, yes you get all your xp focussed on those 3 players, but it is better to train 5 or 6 since it seems to improve the total xp gained, and even though this total xp gets divided by 5 or 6 instead of 3, it is more efficient especially if you are trying to produce more youth players coming through the ranks. Takes slightly more time too to gain the same xp that those 3 youths used to gain before, but definitely much less time than getting the same xp for 2 batches of 3 youths. But your other 5 or 6 players need to be really high xp to keep the squad average xp high since those extra 2 or 3 low xp players included will drive the average xp down a lot.

Anybody else found anything interesting from the new reports?
Don-x
2022-12-05 06:23
Thanks fathima for pointing that out i've been doing that but it somehow depends on your opponent xp too.
The calculation is complicated but some times my team share about 2.5 total xp from a match and the low xp young ones recieve the highest proportion while the high xp old ones recieve the lowest.
Still the fastest way is to train 2 16y players along with 90xp team mates by 22y they are mature, even if they started at 20y by 26y they will have high xp.
Fathima
2022-12-05 07:39 Edited by Fathima at 2022-12-05 07:41
That's correct. I was referring to custom matches only, you don't play many youths in a regular match unless you don't care about results. Yes total xp gained is all about average squad xp so many youth players means you need higher xp players to play with them. My avg xp for friendlies is around 60 and I am getting 1.36 total xp out of which 1.06 goes to 5 youths. That's 0.2 on average per match per player, so they should get +6xp each from 30 friendlies only. So including a few minutes in regular matches, I expect them to get +8 each per season. Earlier when I used 3 youths, I used to get +12xp per season each, so the total gained by youths is definitely more this way - 40xp/5 players compared to 36xp/3 players. And add to it the fact that when I played 3 youths the squad avg xp was even more because I had 8 high xp players compared to the 6 high xp players now. I don't care about how much the high xp players gain anyways, they get their xp from regular matches.
Tegimus
2022-12-06 06:17
Tegimus wrote :* The Plus members option to scout all your own players in one click was initially planned to be a feature to be available for Season 22, however we somehow missed mentioning that in the original post. So we will try to launch this option as soon as possible, probably within a couple of days so please bear with us.


This is now available on the Own Players tab in the scouting reports page. (Transfers >> Scouting).