Michael wrote :
Lol - you're comparing timings between a season that goes for 4 weeks against one that goes for 10 months - spoiler the gaps between games are going to be different.

1pm to 6pm is easily comparable to Sunday to Tuesday in real life. Each round in the game is effectively half a week

Interesting you mention Kane as he played every league and champions league game for spurs last season + 3 domestic cup games = not sure how many spurs had last season......

I have to agree. I tend to think of each round on here as comparable to approximately a week in “real” time.

That is fine and a fair assessment.

What I am trying to say is that we were TOLD that fitness was going to play a much bigger part in the game engine itself going back a few years. So some of us have wasted/invested alot of money is getting extra players that are essentially no longer needed because absolutely nothing have changed with Fitness levels. So I need to know if I can now rid myself of these players because nothing is going to change or if I am going to need to keep them because all of the sudden a random Fitness drop is going to happen.

First off all must be a balance, this is a game, we have a lot off matches in 60 rounds, everything is calculated too this, 1 season goes fast, you can't compare with real life, lol.
Are other games with only 1 match per day, for example:
Monday - cup or friendly,
Tuesday - custom cup,
Wednesday - championship match,
Thursday - WCL - world champions league,
Friday - National teams matches,
Saturday - championship matches, Sunday - free.
Here yes, the condition off players matter, but this game look a like real life, 1 season takes 3 month's and it's really good and tactical more complex, but it's dying slow, because who own this game doesn't care of him from some good years.
Anyway f4football it's a very simple game and fast, my opinion is that it's difficult to implement many things, the season goes fast in 60 rounds and everything is made for this period of time, I think...

I was about to say the same thing about Kane comparison. He literally played every single game for Spurs last season. And the season before, and the one before unless he was injured or suspended. So was Salah, Bruno Fernandes, Gabriel etc.

But Shaun has a point. These players who can play every game should be the cream, let's say those with 80/90+ stamina. 60/70+ should miss some games, 40/50+ should definitely miss many many more. Even though I think fitness loss has been increased a fair bit recently, it should be more to force people to manage player fitness.

Not sure everyone likes it, it's already hard to maintain 11 top players going, not sure how harder will it make to keep good backup players too. But that's the fun part of a management game isn't it?

And apart from fitness, I think injuries and suspensions too are very rare in the game right now, and need to be looked at too.

Shaun Stephens wrote :
That is fine and a fair assessment.

What I am trying to say is that we were TOLD that fitness was going to play a much bigger part in the game engine itself going back a few years. So some of us have wasted/invested alot of money is getting extra players that are essentially no longer needed because absolutely nothing have changed with Fitness levels. So I need to know if I can now rid myself of these players because nothing is going to change or if I am going to need to keep them because all of the sudden a random Fitness drop is going to happen.

I suppose all I am saying is that stamina may be more important than you think, just not in the way you are thinking about it - it may not cause you to change lineups, but poor stamina may cause poor results.

As Fathima said - we were told that stamina would be more important, but we were also told that it would still be possible to play every game starting on 100%.

My only issue is that it's really hard to tell whether stamina has become more important or not.

I think the fact that you can operate with just 11 1st team players and a bunch of fillers or 16yo trainees without really being obviously punished in the game isn't ideal - and I think that's the underlying issue you have with the game as well.

Michael wrote :

I think the fact that you can operate with just 11 1st team players and a bunch of fillers or 16yo trainees without really being obviously punished in the game isn't ideal - and I think that's the underlying issue you have with the game as well.

Essentially yes that is my point, it is highly un-realistic that any one team makes 0 subs every game, and those same 11 players continuously play 90 minutes in all League, Friendly, and Cup games. And to boot they start each game at 100 percent fitness, it just makes no logical sense at all.

But with that being said, at this point it better not change because I too will be doing that and have sold off a bunch of players to do so.

I have been following this discussion here, and was waiting to see all inputs before I respond to this issue. This issue was actually raised before multiple times, and I had promised to try and make stamina more important, around 5 or 6 seasons ago if I correctly remember.

The fact is that it has been looked at, and we have worked on it too. But we decided to not roll it out as a spontaneous change since it would be breaking for many teams if we do that all at once. Instead, we were making small incremental adjustments to fitness loss every season, those of who you take good note of fitness after a match would have already noticed that fitness loss has indeed increased by atleast 30% from what it was 4 or 5 seasons ago.

We will continue to do that until we feel the balance is right, this way we get more data to analyze the effects precisely, and teams also get enough time to notice and adjust to the changes. There is also the fact that after the update to the way how the Potential attribute of a player works, we see a lot more players with decent enough Stamina attribute nullifying the increased fitness loss to an extent. So it will reach a balance eventually, we do not want to make a big change at once and take everyone by surprise.

Besides fitness, injuries and cards were also mentioned by some of you in this context. We will take a look at any possible improvements we can make regarding those too. We agree that "operating with 11 players" is definitely not an option we want managers to have in this game.

Tegimus wrote :
I have been following this discussion here, and was waiting to see all inputs before I respond to this issue. This issue was actually raised before multiple times, and I had promised to try and make stamina more important, around 5 or 6 seasons ago if I correctly remember.

The fact is that it has been looked at, and we have worked on it too. But we decided to not roll it out as a spontaneous change since it would be breaking for many teams if we do that all at once. Instead, we were making small incremental adjustments to fitness loss every season, those of who you take good note of fitness after a match would have already noticed that fitness loss has indeed increased by atleast 30% from what it was 4 or 5 seasons ago.

We will continue to do that until we feel the balance is right, this way we get more data to analyze the effects precisely, and teams also get enough time to notice and adjust to the changes. There is also the fact that after the update to the way how the Potential attribute of a player works, we see a lot more players with decent enough Stamina attribute nullifying the increased fitness loss to an extent. So it will reach a balance eventually, we do not want to make a big change at once and take everyone by surprise.

Besides fitness, injuries and cards were also mentioned by some of you in this context. We will take a look at any possible improvements we can make regarding those too. We agree that "operating with 11 players" is definitely not an option we want managers to have in this game.

Thanks for stating this AFTER i just sold all of my players hahhaha hiiiya. The original statement just said you would make the change for the upcoming season ( 4 or 5 seasons ago). Nothing was stated that a little bit would be done at a time so be ready to bring in extra subs etc...Although I do appreciate it at least being looked at.

karlacci wrote :
How important is the "set pieces" parameter?

This question is a bit old, but I think you can find the answer is this match
https://www.f4football.com/matches/report/74

61 Imran Cesar floats the corner towards the far post
61 A header by Clemens Wasim
[Goal] 61 Wow what a great header! The goalkeeper had no chance

Goal was scored by my CB on 61 setpices against a really good defence.

Set pieces is perhaps the most underrated attribute of all by many users, and very hard to analyze the effects properly since we don't see too many corners and freekicks in the sim. But I think it really matters when you do have them. I got this guy to 60+ set pieces by season 25 and he has 4 goals and 8 assists since then.

Are there any plans to get rid of "away goals" rule?

A match that just went 120 mins extra time, my opponent made 0 subs. Yes 0 Subs....like come on this is just stupid at this point. My opponents highest stamina for a player is 62...62!!!! He had a player with 18 STAMINA PLAY 120 MINS with absolutely no consequence....such a disgrace, you have to change this for next season, this is ludacris.

Shaun Stephens wrote :
A match that just went 120 mins extra time, my opponent made 0 subs. Yes 0 Subs....like come on this is just stupid at this point. My opponents highest stamina for a player is 62...62!!!! He had a player with 18 STAMINA PLAY 120 MINS with absolutely no consequence....such a disgrace, you have to change this for next season, this is ludacris.

Your squad high in stamina is 36 - exactly how are you expecting stamina to make a difference when your team has none?

Michael wrote :

Shaun Stephens wrote :
A match that just went 120 mins extra time, my opponent made 0 subs. Yes 0 Subs....like come on this is just stupid at this point. My opponents highest stamina for a player is 62...62!!!! He had a player with 18 STAMINA PLAY 120 MINS with absolutely no consequence....such a disgrace, you have to change this for next season, this is ludacris.

Your squad high in stamina is 36 - exactly how are you expecting stamina to make a difference when your team has none?

Because I make subs, and I rotate my lineup around....pretty simpole you actually have to MANAGE a team. Not set one lineup and then never make a change sunshine. But clearly I just need 11 players I can sell the rest based on this game mechanic.

Shaun Stephens wrote :

Michael wrote :

Shaun Stephens wrote :
A match that just went 120 mins extra time, my opponent made 0 subs. Yes 0 Subs....like come on this is just stupid at this point. My opponents highest stamina for a player is 62...62!!!! He had a player with 18 STAMINA PLAY 120 MINS with absolutely no consequence....such a disgrace, you have to change this for next season, this is ludacris.

Your squad high in stamina is 36 - exactly how are you expecting stamina to make a difference when your team has none?

Because I make subs, and I rotate my lineup around....pretty simpole you actually have to MANAGE a team. Not set one lineup and then never make a change sunshine. But clearly I just need 11 players I can sell the rest based on this game mechanic.

Why would your 30 stamina guys playing 60 minutes be going any better in the last 5 minutes than his 60's doing 120 minutes - and that's just your 3 subs.

I'd like to think that your subs were your only guys going above walking pace at the end there.

Michael wrote :

Shaun Stephens wrote :

Michael wrote :

Shaun Stephens wrote :
A match that just went 120 mins extra time, my opponent made 0 subs. Yes 0 Subs....like come on this is just stupid at this point. My opponents highest stamina for a player is 62...62!!!! He had a player with 18 STAMINA PLAY 120 MINS with absolutely no consequence....such a disgrace, you have to change this for next season, this is ludacris.

Your squad high in stamina is 36 - exactly how are you expecting stamina to make a difference when your team has none?

Because I make subs, and I rotate my lineup around....pretty simpole you actually have to MANAGE a team. Not set one lineup and then never make a change sunshine. But clearly I just need 11 players I can sell the rest based on this game mechanic.

Why would your 30 stamina guys playing 60 minutes be going any better in the last 5 minutes than his 60's doing 120 minutes - and that's just your 3 subs.

I'd like to think that your subs were your only guys going above walking pace at the end there.

So 11 players is good is essentially what you saying then correct. No need to actually manage a club...seems like a fun game!

Shaun Stephens wrote :

Michael wrote :

Shaun Stephens wrote :

Michael wrote :

Shaun Stephens wrote :
A match that just went 120 mins extra time, my opponent made 0 subs. Yes 0 Subs....like come on this is just stupid at this point. My opponents highest stamina for a player is 62...62!!!! He had a player with 18 STAMINA PLAY 120 MINS with absolutely no consequence....such a disgrace, you have to change this for next season, this is ludacris.

Your squad high in stamina is 36 - exactly how are you expecting stamina to make a difference when your team has none?

Because I make subs, and I rotate my lineup around....pretty simpole you actually have to MANAGE a team. Not set one lineup and then never make a change sunshine. But clearly I just need 11 players I can sell the rest based on this game mechanic.

Why would your 30 stamina guys playing 60 minutes be going any better in the last 5 minutes than his 60's doing 120 minutes - and that's just your 3 subs.

I'd like to think that your subs were your only guys going above walking pace at the end there.

So 11 players is good is essentially what you saying then correct. No need to actually manage a club...seems like a fun game!

Not at all - I'm saying you can't possibly expect to gain an advantage from stamina when your highest is 36

Your team with 11 bad stamina players but with 3 subs against his 50% decent and 50% crazy-bad stamina players evens out for me

Actually try training some stamina before moaning about stamina not have an impact

Michael wrote :

Shaun Stephens wrote :

Michael wrote :

Shaun Stephens wrote :

Michael wrote :

Shaun Stephens wrote :
A match that just went 120 mins extra time, my opponent made 0 subs. Yes 0 Subs....like come on this is just stupid at this point. My opponents highest stamina for a player is 62...62!!!! He had a player with 18 STAMINA PLAY 120 MINS with absolutely no consequence....such a disgrace, you have to change this for next season, this is ludacris.

Your squad high in stamina is 36 - exactly how are you expecting stamina to make a difference when your team has none?

Because I make subs, and I rotate my lineup around....pretty simpole you actually have to MANAGE a team. Not set one lineup and then never make a change sunshine. But clearly I just need 11 players I can sell the rest based on this game mechanic.

Why would your 30 stamina guys playing 60 minutes be going any better in the last 5 minutes than his 60's doing 120 minutes - and that's just your 3 subs.

I'd like to think that your subs were your only guys going above walking pace at the end there.

So 11 players is good is essentially what you saying then correct. No need to actually manage a club...seems like a fun game!

Not at all - I'm saying you can't possibly expect to gain an advantage from stamina when your highest is 36

Your team with 11 bad stamina players but with 3 subs against his 50% decent and 50% crazy-bad stamina players evens out for me

Actually try training some stamina before moaning about stamina not have an impact

It clearly has 0 impact on the game. This team plays the same players in both Friendlies and Main competitions and never makes a sub. So a guy with 18 Stamina plays every game the team plays, the whole game every time. PROOF that stamina and endurance mean JACK SHIT in this game, but we were promised 4 or 5 seasons ago it would. So absolutely zero change was made, and if a change was made it did not make the impact we were promised it to do. The fact that over half the teams NEVER make a sub during a game is just ludacris. Please go back in the history of a billion soccer games that have been played and let me know which one of those games absolutely no subs were made.

Shaun Stephens wrote :

Michael wrote :

Shaun Stephens wrote :

Michael wrote :

Shaun Stephens wrote :

Michael wrote :

Shaun Stephens wrote :
A match that just went 120 mins extra time, my opponent made 0 subs. Yes 0 Subs....like come on this is just stupid at this point. My opponents highest stamina for a player is 62...62!!!! He had a player with 18 STAMINA PLAY 120 MINS with absolutely no consequence....such a disgrace, you have to change this for next season, this is ludacris.

Your squad high in stamina is 36 - exactly how are you expecting stamina to make a difference when your team has none?

Because I make subs, and I rotate my lineup around....pretty simpole you actually have to MANAGE a team. Not set one lineup and then never make a change sunshine. But clearly I just need 11 players I can sell the rest based on this game mechanic.

Why would your 30 stamina guys playing 60 minutes be going any better in the last 5 minutes than his 60's doing 120 minutes - and that's just your 3 subs.

I'd like to think that your subs were your only guys going above walking pace at the end there.

So 11 players is good is essentially what you saying then correct. No need to actually manage a club...seems like a fun game!

Not at all - I'm saying you can't possibly expect to gain an advantage from stamina when your highest is 36

Your team with 11 bad stamina players but with 3 subs against his 50% decent and 50% crazy-bad stamina players evens out for me

Actually try training some stamina before moaning about stamina not have an impact

It clearly has 0 impact on the game. This team plays the same players in both Friendlies and Main competitions and never makes a sub. So a guy with 18 Stamina plays every game the team plays, the whole game every time. PROOF that stamina and endurance mean JACK SHIT in this game, but we were promised 4 or 5 seasons ago it would. So absolutely zero change was made, and if a change was made it did not make the impact we were promised it to do. The fact that over half the teams NEVER make a sub during a game is just ludacris. Please go back in the history of a billion soccer games that have been played and let me know which one of those games absolutely no subs were made.

Unfortunately because managers, like yourself, don't train stamina Tegimus doesn't feel able to make the stamina change all in one go, so he's dialling it up in small steps.

For those of us that have put some time into boosting our stamina it is a little frustrating - I have no clue why you're frustrated about it however as you seem to pay stamina zero attention when it comes to training - am I being trolled here.

As for real life - I'm an Arsenal supporter and with Arteta we're lucky if he uses subs for anything other than stoppage time disruption lol

Why don't you come back and give us your list of games where stamina was the key differentiator in real life?

And by way of a history lesson substitutions didn't exist in the rules of game for its first 100 years - it came in around the same time as diving and time wasting - back then footballers were hardened and carried on playing with broken necks.

Back in my day players walked 5 miles to and from the ground - uphill both ways through a foot of snow etc etc. - they sure as hell had more than 36 stamina back then though

@Shaun Stephens, Your situation is very simple.

1. You played intensely against a team who played normal.
2. Your players have a lot less stamina.
3. You added 2 defenders and 1 AM, which was perfectly covered.

Your 3 substitutions didn't make much difference since your team was already exhausted. Your subs might have played perfectly but doesn't mean much if the rest of the team can't keep up.

I personally benefit from subs very much and managed to beat much stronger teams using clever changes. Or maybe I was just lucky :)

So basically I need 11 players on my team, and train stamina....completely understand, this is going to be a blast I only have to login once a week now instead of twice a day love it!